A response to Blake Lapthorn, acting on behalf of PowWow Water


Please note for context purposes that the below blog is the full transcript of a letter I have today sent in reply to correspondance received from Blake Lapthorn Solicitors, acting on behalf of PowWow Water. I received correspondance from them on September 11th, 2009, in relation to a blog post (see: http://www.ht2.org/ben/?p=17) on this website, which claims that certain comments (appearing after the blog post itself) contain defamatory remarks towards both individual employees of PowWow water and the company itself.

Blake Lapthorn requested that their letter should not be published and I respect this decision. However, I believe it to be in the interest to those individuals who have responded to the post that my response should be available to them, in full.

Reference: PowWow Water Blog

FOR PUBLICATION

Dear Sirs

Thank you for your letter, dated 11 September, 2009 and received 14th September, 2009, with reference to the blog post found at: http://www.ht2.org/ben/?p=17

I must admit I was not surprised to receive correspondence from PowWow addressing the issues raised in this blog post; however I am disappointed that the first approach to me has not come from the company itself, but from you its instructed solicitors, Blake Lapthorn.

By way of background, I thought my blog post the last point of call in my attempts to contact PowWow in regards to the poor customer service I had received (and which I still face today). Throughout the blog posts existence I have sought to be fair and even-handed in the moderation of the general public’s comments, which today numbers over 140 comments. It had been my hope that perhaps PowWow senior management would seek to engage with me to deal with the issues the blog highlights. However, the only engagement that was forthcoming appears to be the fraudulent posts of staff members purporting to be customers (in direct violation of EU law).

Firstly allow me to correct a small issue with your correspondence. The website www.ht2.org does not host a blog where customers can post comments about PowWow. The website hosts the personal blog of I, Ben Betts, which is clearly focussed on the E-learning industry. This blog can be found on the url www.ht2.org/ben and is quite separate to the root www.ht2.org website. Within this blog there is a post, referenced above, upon which it has become popular for members of the public and members of your clients organisation to post their opinions in response to my own. You will also note that my own opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my company (HT2), as highlighted on the “About” page – http://www.ht2.org/ben/?page_id=2

Your letter first advises that some comments from the general public contain personal mobile phone numbers of various PowWow executives and that these numbers are currently subject to abusive phone calls. You list 4 current male employees for whom this is a problem, but then go on to state that these calls are frightening for female personnel. I do have to question the legitimacy of the claim that these are “personal” mobile phone numbers belonging to 4 male workers if female employees of the company are frequently answering the calls.

However, I do not wish to perpetuate any calls which could be thought of “harassment” and as such I have taken measures to remove all mobile phone numbers from the general public’s comments, in complete compliance with your letter. It should be noted that I first solicited confirmation that these were “work” numbers before they were allowed to be posted in the first place (see post #25, September 4th, 2009) and that I have deleted other comments which made no such efforts.

The second part of your letter comments on the so called “Defamatory Comments” made by “alleged former employees, current employees and customers”. You note that these comments extend beyond the company towards individuals, suggesting that “Mr Parks and Mr Kitley are bullies, Mr Parks is dishonest, aggressive and abusive and that Mr Kitley is spineless and ineffective”. You also later draw attention to a comment which states that Mr Parks has a “**** winky” amongst other allegations.

You will of course be aware of recent High Court Judgements made in similar cases to this, such as Smith v ADVFN PLC, where Mr Justice Eady found that Bulletin Board comments made by the general public were “when considered in the context of defamation law…much more akin to slanders”. As your letter takes no issue with the original blog post itself, only with the comments which appear in a “Bulletin Board” fashion, it is fair to assume that this ruling is applicable in these circumstances. Further to this Mr Justice Eady found that in the case of the general public posting to a bulletin board, “opinions may be expressed in exaggerated and strident terms; the only requirement is that they be honestly held” in order for the comments to amount to “fair comment”.

As such, I do not accept that these comments amount to the defamation you claim. However, as earlier demonstrated, I am more than willing to comply with your demands despite this complete lack of grounds. Your letter goes onto list 14 comments to which you deem defamation has taken place. For confirmation of actions taken (or to be taken), I list these comments below. Where discrepancies appear I would appreciate further confirmation of your requirements. By making these amendments I offer no admittance of guilt (either on my behalf, or that of other authors) to the allegations.

1. Comment by “ex-emplyee”, 24th August, 2009 – Last 18 words
This comment has now been edited as required.

2. Comment by “Huey”, 25th August, 2009 – entire comment
This comment has now been removed as required.

3. Comment by “Baz”, 26th August, 2009 – entire comment
This comment has now been removed as required.

4. Comment by “Current Employee”, 27th August, 2009 – “The phrase beginning at the end of line 8,and ending after the first word of line 11”
I assume that ‘the phrase beginning at the end of line 8’ might also be considered ‘line 9’, which states: “As has already been mentioned a good few times, jim park is *** a **** man. In so many ways he’s almost like a **** **** *******, and it would be hilarious if it wasn’t for the” – is this the phrase you require removing?

5. Comment by “ex-employee2”, 3rd September, 2009 – “The sentence beginning at the end of line 13 and ending at the beginning of line 14”
I’m sure you realise the above statement makes no sense, however the sentence which fits the bill closest is “It’s not looking **** for powwow”. Is this the sentence you sought to be removed?

6. Comment by “Saddended”, 4th September, 2009 – “The last 4 lines”
This comment appears to have no defamatory remarks in it, only remarking that:
“I hope Jim Parks & everyone that has bullied & shouted & screamed at decent human beings trying to make a living in a place worse than hell gets their comeuppance soon”. Unless you have incontrovertible evidence as to the nature of “hell”, I would suggest this is personal opinion and therefore fair comment.

7. Comment by “ex-employee”, 4th September, 2009 – “The last three lines of the penultimate paragraph”
I assume that you wish the reference to “their lovely PA Sarah Howes” to be included in the defamatory remarks to be removed?

8. Comment by “MW ex-employee”, 7th September, 2009 – “The last sentence”
Do you also wish for the following link (http://www.alloaadvertiser.com/news/tullibodyandsauchie/articles/2008/07/09/26064-tribunal-awards-manager-11000/) for the article “Tribunal Awards Manager £11,000” as published by the Alloa Advertiser to be removed?

9. Comment by “ex-employee”, 8th September, 2009 – entire comment
This comment has now been removed as required.

10. Comment by “ex-employee”, 8th September, 2009 – entire comment (#46)
This comment has now been removed as required.

11. Comment by “Big Billy”, 24th August, 2009 – “The last line of paragraph 5”
The last line in this comment is “Possible not”. Might I rather assume that you seek the penultimate sentence, “Is an organisation that has over 100 case awaiting an employment tribunal sticking to these policies”, to be removed? If this is the case could you please inform me as to the number of employment tribunal cases outstanding so that I might confirm the defamatory nature of this remark?

12. Comment by “Taste The Difference”, 27th August, 2009 – “Paragraph 5”
I am again unsure as to the defamatory nature of this remark (with the exception of the phrase “**** water in ***** bottles”, which has been edited). The post does make mention of price increases in percentage terms which could be defamatory if found to be inaccurate. As such I would appreciate your confirmation of price rise figures.

13. Comment by “Ernie”, 27th August, 2009 – “The penultimate sentence”
This comment has now been edited as required.

14. Comment by “Big Billy”, 4th September, 2009 – “The first two sentences of paragraph 3”
I am unsure as to the defamatory nature of this comment as it would appear that the weight of comments held within the blog would uphold this comment to be true.

Further to your demands for the above edits/removals of comments, you ask for, “an apology and retraction to Mr Park, Mr Kitley and PowWow water (our client) to be agreed and an undertaking not to repeat the allegations or similar allegations” to be submitted within 7 days from the date of your letter.

Firstly I am unsure as to which “allegations” you refer?

Secondly, you earlier highlighted in your correspondence that your issue was with postings made by persons other than myself. Of course, I cannot apologise on their behalf. You suggest that I am the owner of these defamatory comments, which I am not. The copyright of these comments remains with the person(s) who originally authored and posted the comment. As a means of contacting these individuals it is my intention to publish this letter, in full, on to the blog post. The individuals in question will then be in a position to take the demanded action, should they so desire.

Further to this information, please confirm the addresses or other means of contact which you wish the individuals in question to use in submitting their apology. Many appear to have difficulty getting in touch with your clients senior management and as such a reliable means of correspondence would be a welcome move.

Finally your letter lists 13 anonymous users and tells me that I should provide you with the IP addresses of those individuals, under threat of further action. You refer to these individuals as bloggers which is incorrect. These users are not bloggers (which can be defined as: ’a person who keeps a Web log (blog) or publish an online diary), they are merely commentators on my blog.

How ironic that you have probably come to the conclusion that I am in possession of individuals IP addresses having seen the screenshot of a Murray White worker passing themselves off as a customer in clear violation of False Representation laws. I reserve the right to pursue further action in respect to this violation, should I deem it appropriate at any time in the future.

Users post under anonymous identities for precisely that reason; they wish to remain anonymous. Whilst it has yet to be decided in a UK court of law that an IP address is definitively a piece of “personal identifiable” information, there is significant precedent both in court rulings (Sheffield Wednesday vs Owlstalk) and UK/EU legislation (Data Protection Act & EU Article 29 Working Party discussions) to suggest that this can only be decided by a court of law.

As such I will not release the IP addresses of those users without the order of a Court Injunction.

I am sure you will appreciate that seeking such an injunction would bring unnecessary media attention to this situation. We are in somewhat a “grey area” of the law as it is tested thus far and as such any coverage on this story would likely be significant.

Thus far I believe I have shown good faith above and beyond reasonable measures. I have replied informally, without the involvement of my solicitor. I have acquiesced to your demands on the mobile phone numbers and I am willing to edit the comments you have highlighted to your requirements, despite no wrong-doing having occurred. Furthermore, I will endeavour to prevent personal, defamatory comments from publication to the blog post in question where possible.

As such, I politely request that you withdraw your demand for commentators IP addresses immediately and submit that any apologies your client is lucky enough to receive in light of your request will be the only ones you shall seek, regardless of further action.

An urgent response is required. I reserve all of my rights in respect of this letter and do not acknowledge any wrong-doing. Further to this I once again indicate that the blog in question represents my opinion and not that of my company. I reserve the right to publish this letter as widely as I deem appropriate.

Yours Faithfully

Ben Betts

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  1. #1 by Anonymous at September 16th, 2009

    Pure Genius!

    “6. Comment by “Saddended”, 4th September, 2009 – “The last 4 lines”
    This comment appears to have no defamatory remarks in it, only remarking that:
    “I hope Jim Parks & everyone that has bullied & shouted & screamed at decent human beings trying to make a living in a place worse than hell gets their comeuppance soon”. Unless you have incontrovertible evidence as to the nature of “hell”, I would suggest this is personal opinion and therefore fair comment.”

  2. #2 by ex-employee at September 16th, 2009

    Ben, I have to congratulate you on your superb response to their letter.

  3. #3 by Ben Mortimer at September 17th, 2009

    You have my respect and admiration for standing up to what could easily be percieved as heavy-handed tactics.

    Whilst I have had minimal exposure to Pow Wow in the past, I will make a point of avoiding thier services in the future, and instructing my friends, family and colleagues to do the same.

    The real irony about this is that the legal action carried out by Pow Wow, presumably to try to silence criticism, has caused this dispute to find it’s way onto Twitter, and soon, no doubt into at least a few national newspapers.

    I believe this is what’s known as Karma.

  4. #4 by Jack of Kent at September 17th, 2009

    Good letter. Well done.

  5. #5 by Sue at September 17th, 2009

    A brilliant and well thought out response.

  6. #6 by slack---line at September 17th, 2009

    Brilliant, hope the idiots realise how wrong they have been in calling the solicitor.

  7. #7 by noodle at September 17th, 2009

    Excellent work Ben!

  8. #8 by MattWPBS at September 17th, 2009

    I swear, anyone involved in legal issues and the web should be forced to read about the Striesand effect repeatedly, and probably every time before they consider sending any letters.

    I wonder how long it will be before these postings become the first result for Pow Wow Water?

  9. #9 by Hong Kong Fuey at September 17th, 2009

    Just to echo the other comments. I’ve been in a slightly similar position myself, and as you are finding, the Internet, the Streisand effect and the truth are powerful allies.

  10. #10 by ex employee at September 21st, 2009

    Fantastic Ben !!!! If only the Senior Management at Powwow were so concerned with their customers / ex-employees as they were at threatening you with legal action. I think this only further shows them in the bad light that everyone on this page has highlighted.

  11. #11 by taste the difference at September 30th, 2009

    Ben

    In a word “SUPERB”

    I take my hat off to you, that letter makes amazing reading.

    This is so gonna blow up in the open.

  12. #12 by Bob at October 2nd, 2009

    I hope the owners of powwow read this, and instead of making ridiculous legal threats, fix the shambolic mess their company is in.

    I note, this farce has gone on since June/July, as far as I recall, and the “customer service” (if you can call it that) – is beyond a joke.

    Its particulary funny that we (supposidly) cancelled our contract in August, and still get phone calls asking if we want water.

  13. #13 by AnobizII at October 5th, 2009

    Hi Ben,

    This is amazing. Did you hear anything back? I would love to have seen the look on teh soliciters faces whilst reading that letter lol priceless…

    Well done…

  14. #14 by TB at October 12th, 2009

    Ben
    if you want to contact me on my email I have info on Mr Park for you.

  15. #15 by ANON at October 15th, 2009

    WELL DONE BEN!!!!!!!!OMG. Fantastic. Amazing. Finding this has made my day! As an ex employee of Mr Park I personally could not work in his environment any longer. It was like walking on eggshells all day every day. I witnessed his colourful language and his I will be heard! shouting voice directed at his own Directors and PA.
    My name as ANON as I do not wish to be known those who know Mr Park understand why. Mr Park is the most verbally rude and aggressive man I have ever and no doubt will ever know. He is indeed a BULLY by all accounts (pleasure from the power trip!!). Yet he surrounds himself by well know personalities.. If only they knew! Mr Kitley is actually quite a pleasant man but unfortunately **** to stand up for himself to Mr Park obviously! The walls rattle and the doors bang when Mr Park has one of his numerous tantrums….
    Good luck with your hope for an apology. But to be honest with you I will watch the sky for flying pink hippos!

    [Edited by Moderator]

  16. #16 by ANON at October 16th, 2009

    Ben, I would be happy to also furnish you with further Information if you so wish. as per TB #14
    My own comments being ANON #15

  17. #17 by ex bullied pow wow member at November 10th, 2009

    Ben

    what a great response. Oh and there’s so much more !!

    [edited by moderator]

  18. #18 by billy at November 16th, 2009

    i am also an ex-employee of mr park @ murray white in glasgow.. i dont know why no one has reacted in a physical manner towards him.. i certainly would love to…

    [edited by moderator]

  19. #19 by Mark Walker at January 22nd, 2010

    I think that you should have added to Lapthorn “and I pray for your sakes that you are not dealing directly with Mr Park because there seems to be a groundswell of opinion that you may one day be on the receiving end of some verbal abuse…”

  20. #20 by chris at January 27th, 2010

    I have just come across your blog after trying to research something about Powwow. We have been in dispute with them since last may and they are still trying to charge us even though we have cancelled the contract. They never respond and just try send threatening letters.
    It’s interesting to see so many other people are having problems and your response to the solicitors letter was outstanding. Well done for telling them in a polite way where to go.

  21. #21 by Ben at January 27th, 2010

    Thanks Chris, welcome to our unfortunate club!

  22. #22 by Rebecca Clancy at January 28th, 2010

    Yes I am sick of Pow wow. I had a cooler and sent it back ‘cos they kept invoicing me when I had already paid. I have phoned and emailed to confirm what I have paid all with references. Still they keep invoicing. Today I had the first nasty with all the ‘unpaid’ invoices 8.5% late payment and 40 quid admin charge. Oh, and they have billed me for additional money because they said their computer system was wrong and I was underbilled. I have a copy of everything inc email conversations and contacted their finance team today. This is driving me mad and fear this will go to litigation. Leave me alone Pow wow I have a business to run.

  23. #23 by SR at January 28th, 2010

    Rebecca – exactly the same happened to me today. I got the nasty letter today. Even though I paid them up-to-date in October and now I get a letter saying I haven’t paid.

    They are the most incompetent company I have dealt with in a long time.

  24. #24 by mojo at January 28th, 2010

    wow i too was researching a company that you can never get hold off i.e. powwwow and i came accross this….there are some unanswered questions which Powwow need to own up to

  25. #25 by Paul Hogan at January 28th, 2010

    Hi Ben

    I wish I found this before we got the cooler.

    Im having the problem with the finance department, I spent half an hour on the phone today as all of a sudden (Jan 10) I received a letter stating that my account is over due and they are charging me late fees, now this is really funny as I have an email from them stating my account is clear (Sept 09)and I owe them nothing. They state I havn’t made contct with them, funny as I have phone records of my calls to them and emails from them at the same time as the calls as I all ways insist on them emailing me the outcome of the problem while Im on the phone.

    I even had this girl saying how shes plans to leave very soon as shes sick of the problems they create and never resolve.

    Im waiting now for them to take me to court, Ill be a happy man on that day with my files and records.

  26. #26 by Not A Customer at February 23rd, 2010

    Alas I to have been trying to contact Nestle or Powwow and found your very intersting Blogs.

    My issue is with the very efficient payroll department.

    I have been waiting since July 2009 for payment to be made to me via CSA.

    Unfortunately for me at some time after July 2009 one efficient payroll dept was changed to a more efficient payroll dept. The extremely well trained employees forgot to pass on my details to the new payroll.

    After several letters/correspondances from myself (via csa) a bit of false hope in December 2009. I was hoping that after a break at christmas they might be kind enough to honour the request from July and forward the payment to me.

    January has passed – OOPS! they missed the December payroll as it was a bit earlier. At this point my thoughts are CHAPS payment. Ok always optomistic I thought February will be here soon, I will wait.

    Good news!
    A cheque was sent. Am I getting my payment?
    Don’t think so as CSA have not received it. CSA think it may have gone missing in the post. Perhaps POWWOW will find the cheque before July 2010.

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